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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 21:50:35 GMT -5
Let's see what you've got.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 1:17:30 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm going to be a few days late (I tend to underestimate my deadlines and overestimate my productivity) because I've had to read catch-up on back-issues of Golden/Silver Age Batman + Detective Comics + Star-Spangled Comics and the various Titans titles from 1966 to 2003; because I didn't want to miss any stories that could be recycled/reinvented into RPs and I didn't have a firm understanding of his relationships within The Titans since I'd only known Dick from his Bat-family crossovers, his solo Nightwing series, The Outsiders and the Post-Graduation Day Teen Titans vol. 3; and because I've been playing him in Injustice: Gods Among Us and The Nightwing Arkham City DLC, and reading through a few Mixed Martial Arts reference books, to get a feel for the unique mechanics of his fighting-style and how it's different from Batman's.
Also, I've read the through the Timeline, the Story Archives/Directory on here and the JLA-board, and all the Character Applications which have been accepted/were previously accepted (until removed for lack of activity) as RP-Canon; but I still have a few questions about the RP-Continuality so I can better fit Dick into the Timeline:
1. Is Harvey Dent dead?
I'm not sure because Batman's history seems to follow Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and he doesn't appear in the roster; yet he's mentioned as a -villain- under 'Two Heads Are Better Than One' and 'Hush'.
2. Did Barbara recover from her spinal injury, like in Batgirl vol. 2 and The New 52?
I'm not sure because her applications says
...which is written in the present test (i.e. "Babs is an excellent fighter" instead of "Babs was an excellent fighter") which seems to suggest that she recovered and is active as Batgirl; yet in all her archived RP posts I've read she's only RP'd Oracle, Cassandra Cain seems to be the active Batgirl and, since her application seems to have been accepted before the 'Timeline' requirement, it's not in her application if she did/didn't recover.
3. What's going on with Deathstroke? Specifically; does he have children in the RP (i.e. Grant, Jericho and Rose), and if he does do their histories follow traditional canon, and did The Judas Contract happen?
I'm not sure what Dick Grayson's relationship to Deathstroke would be in this RP-Continuality because he seems to be more 'Professional Badass Mercenary Anti-Hero With A Moral Code' inspired by Arrow, his Deathstroke The Terminator solo-series from the 90s and as an antagonist in Bat-Family Books (Batman and Robin, Birds of Prey, Nightwing, etc.) and Major DC Events (as many problems as there were with Identity Crisis, it can't be argued that it made Deathstroke look like an awesome badass); than 'Adult Who Kills, Bullies and Has Sex with Children' which he seems to be when in relation to The Titans. For example, look at the RP 'Cutting Bait' in 2008:
I've always felt the reason Deathstroke isn't more popular - or rather, why he doesn't have a long-running solo-series despite his popularity with the fan community - is because of his origins as a Teen Titans villain and its inherent contradictions to his character: i.e. he's an extremely efficient and professional mercenary who lives by a unique but strict moral code, yet he's always fighting and loosing to a group of children. Initially his motivations make enough sense - he's being paid to and he wants to avenge his son - but then it becomes weirdly personal - especially for a seemingly super-professional mercenary - until it becomes about teach them hypocritical lessons such as "I'm going to kill a bunch of teenage superheroes to teach teenager superheroes that its dangerous to be teenager superheroes" that is motivations only make sense if a) he's extremely petty, b) he's completely insane from the experiment to turn him into a supersoldier, c) he has a lot of unresolved father/son issues For me, that's what went wrong with Deathstroke's New 52 solo-series: they immediately brought in his boringly convoluted family history (i.e. when has anyone ever said "My favorite Teen Titan is Jericho!"); instead of just having Deathstroke travelling the world pulling jobs as a brutal badass mercenary. However, on the other hand, Deathstroke's complicated and contradictory relationship to children is also a hugely defining part of his character that differentiates him from other 'cool badass mercenaries' by further exploring him as a dark-reflection of Batman - whose co-dependant surrogate father/son relationship with the various Robins, while himself having never grown up with a father, is also quite strange - if it's used effectively such as in the Teen Titans TV-Show where Deathstroke's essentially a cult-leader: a teacher and a manipulator, who wants to both improve you and destroy you. So, I'd like to know how whoever's playing Deathstroke tends to RP him and how he understands his relationship to the Titans/Dick Grayson and what he'd like it to be in the RP-Continuality. Also, I know he's said that Dick hasn't trained Rose yet, in the continuality of the RP, but it's a relationship I'd like to have and I've found the perfect place to slip it in without disrupting the timeline.
4. Can I fuse together the 'Prodigal' and 'Batman & Robin' storylines, both of which had Dick temporarily replacing Bruce as Batman; and a little bit of 'Battle for the Cowl'; to have had Dick fill-in as Batman in 2013 while Bruce recovered from his back-injury?
I'm a Grant Morrison fan but I didn't particularly enjoy his Batman & Robin run - it was too OTT, it completely misused Jason Todd and it tried too hard to differentiate Dick from Bruce by not using any of Batman's classic rogues gallery - but I did love it for its character development of Dick and for the Dick & Damian dynamic; which was why I was a dissapointed when, upon first reading the RP's Continuality Timeline, Batman R.I.P/Battle Of The Cowl/Return of Bruce Wayne hadn't happened. However, I then saw that they timeline had rearranged traditional continuality so that Damian appeared in 2012 and Knightfall only happened in 2013 - which meant, with a little reorganizing, I could still slip in Dick & Damian as Batman & Robin without disrupting the timeline, which would work like this: So, say, in late-2012 Tim Drake stepped down as Robin to become Red Robin/Redwing so that Damian could become Robin and because he was spending more time outside of Gotham as the leader of the reformed Teen Titans (In the timeline I'm writing, which will explain and justify it in more detail, The Teen Titans is formed in 2010 with the members from the original quartet and The New Teen Titans - essentially, The Titans 1999-2003 lineup. Dick leads The Teen Titans until 2012 when the original team breaks up - as we see both Raven and Starfire leaving The Titans in 2012 in their applications - until later in the year it is reformed by Tim with essentially the Young Justice line-up but with the Teen Titan's name, with members of the original line-up possibly rejoining until it becomes like Geoff John's Teen Titan's Vol.3 reboot). Thus in 2013 Batman & Robin is Bruce & Damian until Knightfall Arc begins and Bruce breaks his back. Bruce recruits Azrael to temporarily replace him as Batman while his back heals, with Tim helping train both him and Damian. However, Azrael soon proves unstable and a terrible Batman, and he hospitalizes Damian when Damian tries to fight him for the right to be Batman because he thought Azrael was "disgracing his father's legacy". Tim then also tries to stop Azrael, but is too defeated. All of this is happening at the same time as Bane is taking over Gotham's criminal underworld; and Jason Todd has reappeared in a Batman-costume, declared himself the new Batman and is on a killing-spree through Gotham's underworld. So now we have Bane and two insane Batmen rampaging through Gotham. It's only by teaming up are Dick Grayson, Tim Drake and Damian Wayne able to stop Bane, Azrael and Jason - and in doing so, saving Gotham. Dick then, with Bruce's blessing, takes over as Batman with Damian as his Robin for 5-6 months until Bruce's back heals (say, August/September 2013); and then Dick returns to his Nightwing identity and relocates to Bludhaven for the next year, before returning to Gotham at the present-date (So I'd be able to be in Gotham RPs while having a justification of why he hasn't been involved in any of the recent ones).
5. Can I create non-canon connections/relationships between Dick and NPCs (i.e. characters who currently aren't being played by anyone), if I can justify why I want to and if I can do so without affecting the overall timeline?
For example, I loved his dynamic with Boston Brand in their Flashpoint miniseries 'Deadman and The Flying Graysons'; and I'd think they'd make a great duo because of how they share a culture/background - the circus life, the thrill of performance and flight, which they experienced as acrobats and defined them as people - yet are completely opposite: Nightwing is all about physicality, Deadman doesn't even have a physical body; Nightwing is grounded in the realism of the Bat Family books, while Deadman is engulfed in the fantastical and mystical of the DC Dark; Nightwing could be with any woman but can't decide who he's supposed to be with, while Deadman only love one woman but can never physically be with her. Nightwing and Deadman would meet when their interaction with a mystical artifact traps Deadman in Nightwing's body, or switch Deadman into Nightwing's body and Nightwing into Deadman's wraith form, which they eventually correct but find they still have a residual psychic/spiritual link and will occasionally team-up from time-to-time whenever Nightwing needs help with any case involving mystical/magical elements or Deadman needs a physical body - with Nightwing's physique perfect for Deadman's acrobatic skills. Also, it would give Nightwing a connection to The Dark section of the DCU - the only part of the DCU he isn't connected to - and allow me to use him in JLA Dark RPs.
That's all, I'll try to finish the application as soon as possible.
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Batman (Bruce Wayne)
Anti-Hero
Detective / Vigilante
I'll be standing where I belong, between you and the people of Gotham.
Posts: 256
Title: Batman, Insider, Matches Malone
Alignment: Chaotic Good
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Post by Batman (Bruce Wayne) on Sept 23, 2014 9:32:54 GMT -5
0. Stop it with the coloring book. underlines, bolding, larger font sizes, periodic use of colors - I'm fine with. Reading pink, blue, green, yellow, red, orange, emerald, jade, mauve, brown, white, navy blue, chrome, gray, chestnut, orange, peach, hot pink, and whatever other colors you seem to enjoy adding for the sake of adding color - is stupid. Additionally, the application is not about 'testing' your knowledge. I'll answer your questions below. Sorry, I'm going to be a few days late (I tend to underestimate my deadlines and overestimate my productivity) because I've had to read catch-up on back-issues of Golden/Silver Age Batman + Detective Comics + Star-Spangled Comics and the various Titans titles from 1966 to 2003; because I didn't want to miss any stories that could be recycled/reinvented into RPs and I didn't have a firm understanding of his relationships within The Titans since I'd only known Dick from his Bat-family crossovers, his solo Nightwing series, The Outsiders and the Post-Graduation Day Teen Titans vol. 3; and because I've been playing him in Injustice: Gods Among Us and The Nightwing Arkham City DLC, and reading through a few Mixed Martial Arts reference books, to get a feel for the unique mechanics of his fighting-style and how it's different from Batman's. Also, I've read the through the Timeline, the Story Archives/Directory on here and the JLA-board, and all the Character Applications which have been accepted/were previously accepted (until removed for lack of activity) as RP-Canon; but I still have a few questions about the RP-Continuality so I can better fit Dick into the Timeline: 1. Is Harvey Dent dead? I'm not sure because Batman's history seems to follow Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and he doesn't appear in the roster; yet he's mentioned as a -villain- under 'Two Heads Are Better Than One' and 'Hush'.1. Harvey Dent is not dead. In our story line, Batman and Harvey both fell from the building, but Harvey suffered a concussion and later a psychological breakdown that became public - blamed on Batman. So the 'Good' Harvey Dent did is credited to Harvey. The insanity that is Two-Face is blamed on Batman. 2. Did Barbara recover from her spinal injury, like in Batgirl vol. 2 and The New 52? I'm not sure because her applications says ...which is written in the present test (i.e. "Babs is an excellent fighter" instead of "Babs was an excellent fighter") which seems to suggest that she recovered and is active as Batgirl; yet in all her archived RP posts I've read she's only RP'd Oracle, Cassandra Cain seems to be the active Batgirl and, since her application seems to have been accepted before the 'Timeline' requirement, it's not in her application if she did/didn't recover. In our current timeline - 2012 is a critical point. In December 2011 - Barbara Gordon is crippled. Jason is killed. Dick and Bruce have a fight prompting Dick to split off from Bruce once and for all. January 2012 - Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing. Barbara Gordon becomes Oracle. Follow this pattern approximately April / May Tim Drake becomes Robin, which introduces Spoiler, and then Cassandra Cain January 2013 - Hush happens and in addition Hush helps Jason Todd opening for "Under the Red Hood" in March 2013. December 2013 - Knightfall Bruce becomes crippled by Bane and gives the mantle to Jean Paul Valley. 6 months go by with Bruce Wayne venturing the World and is eventually cured by the Lazarus pit. Bruce trains with Lady Shiva for 2 months then returns in August to defeat Jean Paul Valley. When Bruce returns he figures out how to cure Barbara Gordon and immediately begins helping her recover her legs. Long story short, Barbara is crippled for almost 3 years. In November, Barbara's healing is almost complete, but she's still going through therapy. 3. What's going on with Deathstroke? Specifically; does he have children in the RP (i.e. Grant, Jericho and Rose), and if he does do their histories follow traditional canon, and did The Judas Contract happen? I'm not sure what Dick Grayson's relationship to Deathstroke would be in this RP-Continuality because he seems to be more ' Professional Badass Mercenary Anti-Hero With A Moral Code' inspired by Arrow, his Deathstroke The Terminator solo-series from the 90s and as an antagonist in Bat-Family Books (Batman and Robin, Birds of Prey, Nightwing, etc.) and Major DC Events (as many problems as there were with Identity Crisis, it can't be argued that it made Deathstroke look like an awesome badass); than 'Adult Who Kills, Bullies and Has Sex with Children' which he seems to be when in relation to The Titans. For example, look at the RP ' Cutting Bait' in 2008: I've always felt the reason Deathstroke isn't more popular - or rather, why he doesn't have a long-running solo-series despite his popularity with the fan community - is because of his origins as a Teen Titans villain and its inherent contradictions to his character: i.e. he's an extremely efficient and professional mercenary who lives by a unique but strict moral code, yet he's always fighting and loosing to a group of children. Initially his motivations make enough sense - he's being paid to and he wants to avenge his son - but then it becomes weirdly personal - especially for a seemingly super-professional mercenary - until it becomes about teach them hypocritical lessons such as "I'm going to kill a bunch of teenage superheroes to teach teenager superheroes that its dangerous to be teenager superheroes" that is motivations only make sense if a) he's extremely petty, b) he's completely insane from the experiment to turn him into a supersoldier, c) he has a lot of unresolved father/son issues For me, that's what went wrong with Deathstroke's New 52 solo-series: they immediately brought in his boringly convoluted family history (i.e. when has anyone ever said "My favorite Teen Titan is Jericho!"); instead of just having Deathstroke travelling the world pulling jobs as a brutal badass mercenary. However, on the other hand, Deathstroke's complicated and contradictory relationship to children is also a hugely defining part of his character that differentiates him from other 'cool badass mercenaries' by further exploring him as a dark-reflection of Batman - whose co-dependant surrogate father/son relationship with the various Robins, while himself having never grown up with a father, is also quite strange - if it's used effectively such as in the Teen Titans TV-Show where Deathstroke's essentially a cult-leader: a teacher and a manipulator, who wants to both improve you and destroy you. So, I'd like to know how whoever's playing Deathstroke tends to RP him and how he understands his relationship to the Titans/Dick Grayson and what he'd like it to be in the RP-Continuality. Also, I know he's said that Dick hasn't trained Rose yet, in the continuality of the RP, but it's a relationship I'd like to have and I've found the perfect place to slip it in without disrupting the timeline. I will answer this before Slade cuts your head off. 1. Teen Titans aren't just teenagers. Donna Troy and Starfire are the strength, agility, and speed of Superman and/or Wonder Woman. Kid Flash can run so fast he can force people to explode if he runs directly through them. Beast Boy can transform into any animal he can think of, he is cunning and very agile. Cyborg can plug into any computer and gain extensive intelligence upon anyone or anything. Cyborg also has increased strength, comparable to Deathstroke. Jericho can swap bodies with anyone he looks into their eyes. Raven is arguably one of the most powerful members of the team, as powerful as a god, with the destiny of bringing the apocalypse. Dick Grayson....well, I won't tell you about him. if you don't know his relationship to Slade, that's your problem. ^ By NO means is Slade "bested by a team of teenagers" Slade is against overwhelming odds that, even in the comics, Deathstroke defeats and gives the Teen Titans a run for their money. On the topic of how our player does the character...He ignores almost everything that makes Deathstroke a Teen Titan villain and sticks primarily to Deathstroke's solo run. However, Judas Contract and Deathstroke / Nightwing's quarrel still sticks with our Slade. Deathstroke's hatred for the Teen Titans is more focused on attacking Dick Grayson and his allies rather than a bunch of kids. Slade also wants to avoid pedophilia jokes and accusations. Arrow has the best interpretation of "Television" Slade to date. No other movie, series, or video game have gotten Slade more pin-point than Arrow thus far. 4. Can I fuse together the 'Prodigal' and 'Batman & Robin' storylines, both of which had Dick temporarily replacing Bruce as Batman; and a little bit of 'Battle for the Cowl'; to have had Dick fill-in as Batman in 2013 while Bruce recovered from his back-injury?
I'm a Grant Morrison fan but I didn't particularly enjoy his Batman & Robin run - it was too OTT, it completely misused Jason Todd and it tried too hard to differentiate Dick from Bruce by not using any of Batman's classic rogues gallery - but I did love it for its character development of Dick and for the Dick & Damian dynamic; which was why I was a dissapointed when, upon first reading the RP's Continuality Timeline, Batman R.I.P/Battle Of The Cowl/Return of Bruce Wayne hadn't happened. However, I then saw that they timeline had rearranged traditional continuality so that Damian appeared in 2012 and Knightfall only happened in 2013 - which meant, with a little reorganizing, I could still slip in Dick & Damian as Batman & Robin without disrupting the timeline, which would work like this: So, say, in late-2012 Tim Drake stepped down as Robin to become Red Robin/Redwing so that Damian could become Robin and because he was spending more time outside of Gotham as the leader of the reformed Teen Titans (In the timeline I'm writing, which will explain and justify it in more detail, The Teen Titans is formed in 2010 with the members from the original quartet and The New Teen Titans - essentially, The Titans 1999-2003 lineup. Dick leads The Teen Titans until 2012 when the original team breaks up - as we see both Raven and Starfire leaving The Titans in 2012 in their applications - until later in the year it is reformed by Tim with essentially the Young Justice line-up but with the Teen Titan's name, with members of the original line-up possibly rejoining until it becomes like Geoff John's Teen Titan's Vol.3 reboot). Thus in 2013 Batman & Robin is Bruce & Damian until Knightfall Arc begins and Bruce breaks his back. Bruce recruits Azrael to temporarily replace him as Batman while his back heals, with Tim helping train both him and Damian. However, Azrael soon proves unstable and a terrible Batman, and he hospitalizes Damian when Damian tries to fight him for the right to be Batman because he thought Azrael was "disgracing his father's legacy". Tim then also tries to stop Azrael, but is too defeated. All of this is happening at the same time as Bane is taking over Gotham's criminal underworld; and Jason Todd has reappeared in a Batman-costume, declared himself the new Batman and is on a killing-spree through Gotham's underworld. So now we have Bane and two insane Batmen rampaging through Gotham. It's only by teaming up are Dick Grayson, Tim Drake and Damian Wayne able to stop Bane, Azrael and Jason - and in doing so, saving Gotham. Dick then, with Bruce's blessing, takes over as Batman with Damian as his Robin for 5-6 months until Bruce's back heals (say, August/September 2013); and then Dick returns to his Nightwing identity and relocates to Bludhaven for the next year, before returning to Gotham at the present-date (So I'd be able to be in Gotham RPs while having a justification of why he hasn't been involved in any of the recent ones).
If you could listen to yourself, you're babbling. So I skimmed over reading a few of the last lines because the answers I give you will sort all of those concerns out. 1. You're looking at the wrong Timeline and that's my mistake. Damian's been revised to become Robin in 2014. 2. Battle for the Cowl is supposed to happen at the end of Knightfall. It's a climatic ending that will have Dick Grayson as Batman for at least a short while as Bruce and Jean Paul are still recovering. 3. I have plans in the future that I haven't shared with others. With that said, I'm not a huge Grant Morrison fan, I don't like how he did multiple things, but if you have ideas or things you want to rearrange, you have wind in your sails to do that. 4. Tim Drake's Young Justice is not the same as Teen Titans. Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing *should* correspond to the New Titans / Teen Titans. Where the kids try to emphasize "We're not kids anymore." This would segway them into joining the Justice League later on as auxiliary members. 5. Can I create non-canon connections/relationships between Dick and NPCs (i.e. characters who currently aren't being played by anyone), if I can justify why I want to and if I can do so without affecting the overall timeline?
For example, I loved his dynamic with Boston Brand in their Flashpoint miniseries ' Deadman and The Flying Graysons'; and I'd think they'd make a great duo because of how they share a culture/background - the circus life, the thrill of performance and flight, which they experienced as acrobats and defined them as people - yet are completely opposite: Nightwing is all about physicality, Deadman doesn't even have a physical body; Nightwing is grounded in the realism of the Bat Family books, while Deadman is engulfed in the fantastical and mystical of the DC Dark; Nightwing could be with any woman but can't decide who he's supposed to be with, while Deadman only love one woman but can never physically be with her. Nightwing and Deadman would meet when their interaction with a mystical artifact traps Deadman in Nightwing's body, or switch Deadman into Nightwing's body and Nightwing into Deadman's wraith form, which they eventually correct but find they still have a residual psychic/spiritual link and will occasionally team-up from time-to-time whenever Nightwing needs help with any case involving mystical/magical elements or Deadman needs a physical body - with Nightwing's physique perfect for Deadman's acrobatic skills. Also, it would give Nightwing a connection to The Dark section of the DCU - the only part of the DCU he isn't connected to - and allow me to use him in JLA Dark RPs.
That's all, I'll try to finish the application as soon as possible. 1. Yes, you can create relationships, provided you elaborate the direction you want to take that relationship or expect us to question it. 2. Nightwing doesn't need a connection to "The Dark" side of DC because he has a connection to Raven and Donna Troy. Having Deadman on the roster of allies / friends is acceptable, but explaining the significance is what you're going to need and focus on.
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Batman (Bruce Wayne)
Anti-Hero
Detective / Vigilante
I'll be standing where I belong, between you and the people of Gotham.
Posts: 256
Title: Batman, Insider, Matches Malone
Alignment: Chaotic Good
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Post by Batman (Bruce Wayne) on Oct 7, 2014 18:38:25 GMT -5
Okay you're up Heroic.
I'll give you one week to post your application before this thread goes into the bin.
You've had three weeks to do something with this and there's still nothing.
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